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IMHO they should be able to remove the two upper rear control arms and replace them with a single, fabricated, adjustable upper control arm (top link). The bottom line is that at mid-turn, each end will want to roll to its own degree of angle. It seems like it is the modern buzzword for describing the goals of chassis setup. by . For the Big Bar, Soft Spring setups, teams often introduce Pro-dive into the left front suspension to encourage rapid dive on entry to get the left front down quickly. 6 pt roll cage setup for easy in and out street use. Click. Setup Tips for Metric on asphalt | racecheep - ProBoards We can lower the rear RC by making changes to the mounting points. The left side suspension usually is designed with about half the angle of the right side in a conventional design. Race car suspension Class | Page 47 | Physics Forums I would run either the pure stock or street stock class. In order to slow you must lose (kinetic) energy. Get Ready for a New Season of Gardening -Choose from Tomatoes, Peaches, Corn, Zinnias & More! METRIC CROW FOOT Other Items Online Auctions at EquipmentFacts.com. I wondered if a 3 link could be made to work well without them. Re: street stock set up. When you enter the corner you are going to slow down. On the a street stock what size spring would be better to run on the rear. Street Stock Dirt Oval Racing - All the dirt, clay and pavement-racing excitement in a 1:10 scale RTR. Thanks a lot for making it. Check your PM's. In order to perform the set up routine the car needs to be completely ready to race. They aren't expensive to buy or install, WB shocks are the same price as stock mount ones and bolts allow for much easier tuning. Thank you, that forum is a wealth of information. Tire Tools. Biggest change is getting ride height . Do not attempt to open the setup file in Windows. Of the other two, camber is well-recognized, but for all intents and purposes, the least-understood . It just won't work. Understanding the relationship between the rear roll center on these cars and the setup will help us find a more balanced setup. Bump Springs Tech. So, here is, in order of logic and importance, a list of setup parameters we need to address to make our cars fast and consistent. If those desired angles are different, then we term the setup unbalanced. Aug 24th 2005. rolling chassis. It must show a consistent gain in performance and a logical ideology to the bulk of race teams. Can a 3-link be used effectively without weight jacks? The set-up really planted the RR tire. It depends on your rule book and it's enforcement. Mod Four Tech. 1980 Camaro bomber class street stock crate motor ford 9inch. Love it when people explain why somethings done rather than just saying this is how its done., Thank you Jeff! By Bob Bolles, Circle Track Magazine . Billy Becka's 29 car, as he mentioned, was fast at SAS, but THR and SAS are very different beasts. The amount of difference you need is directly influenced by the installed motion ratio of the spring and the spring rate. Long gone are the days of saying that the MC is not important. A three link with panhard bar using the stock lower mounts works fine. also get to the scales whenever you can. 321. Hardcore Package - $5,700 (2023 Pricing) *Some components included in the package are not shown in picture below*. The right-side tire contact patches will also need to be inline with the right front tire pointed straight ahead. The RC height will move with vertical movement of the rear of the car. If the LR tire is too cool, then the RR spring is too stiff. I ran a street stock/sportsman from 1995 to 2000 with a metric frame. For many gardeners, it starts with tomatoes. Setup Routine - JOES Racing Products Try to understand how aero downforce is created and then configure your car so that you take advantage of every area where you could produce more downforce. The moment center must be located correctly for your type of racing and the cambers must be set, again toward your setup style and track conditions. We do not want to try to solve turn entry problems with the brake bias, we only need to make sure the car stays neutral in handling when the brakes are applied. What do I do if the car is loose or tight throughout the corner? I have had a lot of feedback from teams who did the same with the same results. For the lower links, lowering the chassis mounts at the front of the link lowers the rear RC. Coreless Stretch Film; Pre-Stretch Film; Hand Roll; Machine Roll; Jumbo Roll; Industrial Plastic Division. But there is still some changes to be made from track to track. Last couple of years I ran the car we just used tubular ones with rod ends because it was legal and easier. Go here but read before you post..lol. 6. You must log in or register to reply here. 70030. What do you mean by spring loaded trailing arm, i've always had that idea, but not sure if its something thats available or something i would have to fab up. Once you've made the entry to the corner balanced, check to see if the adjuster is centered. The car is loose mid to exit with not foward drive. The settings, including the moment center location, really do dictate how all of the other parts and pieces of setup will work. Stock Car Racing, NASCAR, Late Model, Sooner Speedway, Frost Racing Team, Race Links, Chevy Monte Carlo . Heres a helpful image. Street Stocks Dur-A-Flex Racing Christjohn likes to get to the track early and get his car set up so he can watch the races. -3 . 03 0@ 34-.=- 2 ++(+'o $ (&%q qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq ,&%q qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qq (,%q qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq ,,%q qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qq You need to locate the moment correctly, and the cambers . Still having problems? Next is engine set back if allowed. MSRP: $515.99. Metric Street Stocks - Lone Star Speedzone Forums To add weight to a given corner, raise the ride height at that corner or lower the ride height at an adjacent corner. By Plan to win in a repeatable fashion. I ran a metric street stock at HMP for a number of years and was definitely not at a disadvantage. The sportsman car i had at SAS was always a fast car and it was coil spring 4 link no panhard bar and no weight jacks. The control arm angles affect the rear steer and the third-link angle can redistribute load upon acceleration. AFCO C1 METRIC PADS. 35809 FABRICATED IMPALA FRAME. Just about all the available setup options that you can adjust on a real WC car can be adjusted in the sim. I can understand not allowing alot of stuff from a cost perspective but weight jacks seem to be one of those things that are cheap to begin with and you end up spending 3 times as much money and alot more time trying to get the same result while complying with rules that don't allow them. I measured ours at close to 20". Whats the dominant front clip, and what are they doing with these metric rear setups? Bolt on Torque Link Bracket - Afco - Pair They have all kinds of articles and how to write ups on what to do with a metric four link to make it work better, how to use things like bump stops, progressive springs, gas shocks, sliding ballast, to make a car faster and more drivable. 97 to 2004 set up sheet for stock metric lowers ride height lf 3 1 2 to 4 rf 4 1 2 lr 11 1 4 to 11 1 2 rr 11 1 2 4 link amp 3 link lf 1100 rf 1000 these spring rates are a good starting point some tracks call for a little less and some for a more don t listen to your buddies on spring rates because different, the 4 5 / 20 2. They arent usually as good at spotting little modifications to every single part of the suspension. I was also wondering, are there any tricks you have to make your tires wear slower without damaging speed. . Chassis. ANYBODY KNOW OF ANY STREET STOCK RACING CHEATS/TIPS. Taipei, Taiwan. Antisquat is detrimental to corner entry. If your vehicle of choice utilizes a McPherson strut style front suspension, then your 2 pivot points would be . If you want to know how to adjust iRacing Sprint Car cross weight, go here. .220 to .235 would be fine without a quickner. The cars with the stock metric 4 link all seem to go into a four wheel drift and are always loose on exit. A level panhard bar ( same mounting height on both sides) means force is vectored laterally to the tires. I ran a street stock/sportsman from 1995 to 2000 with a metric frame. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Moving the pull-bar or just the third link to the left increases the loading on the LR tire during acceleration. I would say 99's priorities worked just fine. Samuel232. Sort by. Bush i agree with your Eriez/ 7 comment. ford 9' rear end w/disc brakes, stocks, springs, gauges just add motor and transmission and go racing. Plan out changes that could help improve performance or durability. Each suspension system desires to do its own thing when lateral forces are introduced from the car going through the turns. The less angle the better. Maybe if Billy would be more specific about how he made his stock setup work we could learn even more. Subtle changes often go unnoticed, especially when they're hard to see without jacking the car up and crawling underneath. This variety grows best when grown alone and can reach up to 12 feet tall. var email = "RacelineCentral" I would rather race 100% legal with a rule book that is written 100% clear and specific, that is enforced as it is written. Contact Us. . Brian Wise. Truck99August 22, 2005 in Grease Monkey Hangout. 122. My truck has weight jacks and a stock 4 link. Is this why Im wearing out the right front? Brake Bias 30 day Money Back Guarantee!- If you don't learn something that helps you go faster, email me and I will refund 100% of your money backAfter payment you will be directed to a download page. Setup Balance "One bad person can ruin it for everyone and that is just disrespectful", The Taipei Taxis, City Traffic Taiwan Street scene in the capital city of Taiwan at dusk with motion blurred taxis and traffic in the streets. 266. In situations where the exit portion of the track provides less traction and/or the corner is more flat, we might need to develop more rear traction upon acceleration. Chassis - Port City Race Cars As the car is lowered, the rear RC will generally move down. Cvracer5. When the track is cooler, you may want to loosen the car some. Happy New Year. Eliminate most of your bumpsteer and Ackermann and install the correct steering ratio for your track that would suite the driver. Once you have evaluated all of the above and feel fairly confident that the car is set up correctly, you should then work to tune the transitions into and off of the corners with the shocks. Reply #9 - 05/01/09 at 8:00pm. Pure Stock Tech. The images used are taken from the iRacing Super Late Model setup screen. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Your email address will not be published. With so many different combinations of possibilities it leaves us with literally thousands of possible chassis combinations to choose from. Using our asphalt design technology as a building block and the dirt experience of our new shop foreman we designed our first dirt late model. Home. I'll start out with what seems like the obvious to me - the rear suspension. I haven't plotted it all out but four links, none of which are at the axis of rotation, would tend to fight each other as body rolls. Antisquat results from the third link trying to straighten out, or become more horizontal as the car accelerates and the rear end desires to rotate. We ran the stock lowers but boxed them and put in better bushings if I recall correctly. LIT-721 80293NDP 2009-2015 Cadillac CTS-V HE. Fast And Furious. For warmer track temperatures, you are going to need to tighten the car. My old car had a stock frame front to back with just the suspension pick-up points changed, it took a lot of trial and error over three years to get a good baseline for most tracks. After the race I had people come to our pit area and ask how did you get a metric car to lift the left front off the ground?" Online: $349.99. Some of the names, most notably in the asphalt Street Stock springs, are different, but the process is the same. How to Lower the Cross Weight in an iRacing Setup. Port City Racecars Road Race Chassis is a purpose-built racing machine. Race Car Street Stock Set Up help manual book. SUCH AS SPRINGS, SHOCKS, SWAYBARS ETC. Long exposure, Nikon D810. Anything helps when u trying to figure out a starting point.thanks for the input i will try some of this and see how it works i have raced some before mostly mini stocks. Its a whole lot more driver and a whole lot less setup on dirt. It may take a few test sessions to help you determine your balance, but if you observe the indicators correctly, then tuning the car for dynamic balance can be done. Ive raise the center section of the chassis where the the upper mounts attach by 3". Any angle up hill to the right rear will cause upward force on both tires and unload both tires. I was thinking this setup might help because their are not alot of different way to adjust these cars other then stagger, offset, and maybe shocks. camaro street stock setup Not that you can't get the same handling results with shims, etc., but it's a whole lot easier to adjust the handling of the car with weigh jackers. I don't really encourage that method. It's on a car that I'm helping with. Asphalt circle track metric GM 4-link questions - Speed-Talk.com Swap Option: Medieval will build the chassis using one of our sandblasted frames. I see the times at CCMS are identical, THR the truck .5 sec quicker. Camber was -2 deg on RH and +2 deg on LH at ride height. These pads are use on dirt for medium and heavy braking, and asphalt for sportsman and Hobby Stock cars. Pavement Modifieds. On the metric chassis the roll centers, from what I understand are mainly influenced by ride height, because we can't change control arms ect. With all the negative BS that tends to permiate these boards these days, I thought maybe we could talk about something real and constructive. If we have a top view difference in alignment between the transmission output shaft and the pinion shaft and they are parallel, then the angle to the driveshaft created by that misalignment might be sufficient to provide the needed angular differential needed for loading the U-joint bearings and reducing negative harmonics. That move took this design to the next level. The Metric four-link suspension design is a bit different than most other rear suspensions. The rear won't desire much roll and there will be excess load transfer to the outer wheel and tire. Saturday Night Racer - reverse spring split - LATEMODELRACER.COM 10. Yeah! That's why I asked about weight jacks in the original post. the metric cars at THR are at a big disadvantage in terms of track width, ride height, and rear suspension but if they were to be able to use a third link and panhard bar they can be very competitive even without weight jacks. Location. Setup Changes For The Metric four-link Even if we can lower the rear RC to around 13 inches, that's still a high rear RC. A good handling car can make gobs of horsepower and hook it up. 5. We have continually pressed these issues because of the extreme importance they have. This will help keep your ride heights in the ballpark. We had no idea how popular and successful this line of chassis would be. there are a lot of knowledgeable guys there. I followed the progress of the THR #01 SS very closely and when Terry says he tried everything legally possible to get that rear end to quit binding up during body roll, he's not exagerating. The upper IC is to the rear of the rearend and the IC for the lower links is well in front of the rearend. Basically - after you finish the set up routine, the car goes in the hauler. The surest way to get disqualified is to bolt an illegal part onto your car. Street Stock - (WISSOTA TYPE) - Medieval Chassis lowers are stock location on frame. Negative aspects might include excessive bumpsteer (more than 0.030 bump in or out in for each inch of travel is considered negative by most designers), excessive Ackermann (more than a 1/4 degree added steer in either front wheel in 10 degrees of steering input is considered excessive), and incorrect steering quickness. So, it might be the best for asphalt racing to run as low as possible or as much as the rules allow to create a lower center of gravity. Wonder how fast it would be if I changed the locations. I got a 1000 on ebay 150897831883 at like $5.00 I would do 1100 RF, 1000 LF, 225 LR and, 175 RR but that was on big chevelle or impala chassis. Loss of efficiency can rob power from the drivetrain due to the generation of vibrations and harmonics that are also damaging to the bearings. There are ways to do that without changing the handling at other points around the racetrack. If you could slide the MC to the right, or outside of the turn for you road racers, the front end will get stiffer. This will be a brief tutorial that should help iRacers adjust their setups to better suit their driving styles. Antidive helps prevent sudden nose dive on entry by mechanically resisting the downward motion of the suspension using the rotational forces created through braking. Now you have to compensate with spring change. There are two main ways to tighten or loosen the car. LOL. These are the general rules unless you are trying to "tie down" a corner. sj_valley_dave wrote on 05/01/09 at 12:12pm: I spoke with Dave24 after last weekend, he dropped the fronts down to 700 LF and 800 RF and got the cross down to 45.8%, pulled the bolt out and floated the RR spring. The 1st thing we will need to do is look at the car, where are we with your current setup and how far can we go with that setup. I can agree to use a LR instead RR. Sep 1, 2009. Steering Geometry You are using an out of date browser. Circle Track Setup: The Case for Caster. That is the best description of the result of the dynamic force that influences each system. We even did pretty good with it in the THR LLM class back in `99. As for stock arms they worked just fine ,and didn't cost anything. The metric cars can use different size spring spacers as well, so the playing field is already level in that respect. This means keep track of weight coming off and going on. View all S3SS. As these pads get hot, they offer more friction, and still work well at over 1000 degrees. Metrics can be competitive IF they are permitted to address their four-point rear suspension problems. Street Stock Racing Cars for Sale | RacingJunk These cars drive off the left rear more to keep them from being to loose, that is why you are starting to see the LF coming off the racetrack, it takes proper weight placement, rear bushing selection, spring choice, and ride heights to make it have a lot of traction but not be a three wheel out of control mess. If you can use bucket and run a taller sprign thats a good way to go. Strictly asphalt street stocks and parts. Forum Actions: Forum Statistics: Threads: 1; . Conversion to Race Car When we convert a Metric four-link suspension to a racing application, we need to be aware of several important factors. It is not advantageous to have the rearend steer to the right at any time on asphalt. Street Stock; Other; Best Selling. set the tone for how the parts and setup will work. Also the rear springs on that car Dave 24, are either Landrum 200-175 or Afco 194-166can't remember, Only if you are racing anywhere except Bonneville.lol Chad. Dirt Modified IMCA, Local Tracks. Wheel Covers. The engine should always be aligned perpendicular to the rearend and/or parallel to the centerline of the car. Am I correct that you would reattach the sway bar after making the perch adjustments? Brake Pad Identification and Friction Surface Options Explained Not sure how much traffic this post will get here. I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are on what it would take to allow the metric cars to be competitive without giving them too much. We have been softening those setups over the years, but never intended to go to coil bind or bump rubbers. Looking forward to the tips for Dirt Oval racing! Chassis Setup Docs Hyper Racing. did desi arnaz jr have a stroke; moose tracks vs cow tracks ice cream If this component on your car is not right, then the whole car will suffer, no matter what else you do. How to Open the Setups. However, that is only one of the three basic geometric ways to move a tire on a race vehicle. On a metric four-link car, the four control arms determine the rear moment center height too. Would it be too much of an advantage to let these guys run a 3-link rear with solid links and panhard bar? One way is to have a rear spring split, where the right rear (RR) spring has less spring rate than the LR spring. Get any of Steve Smiths street stock books for general knowledge in the essentials of cam/cas, toe out , roll center etc. Understanding Caster and Camber for Suspension Setup - Speedway Motors . Less fuel equals faster speeds. RacelineCentral is not responsible for the accuracy of this document, If you are an owner, sponsor, or mentioned here, Please feel free to contact us below for updating. The idea is to steer the car using different height holes for the rear control arm mounts. All this really depends mostly on the track and maybe the car youre driving. Jul 25, 2011. AFCO C2 METRIC PADS $179.99. I'm thinking that a panhard bar would eliminate side to side motion but little else. When thisbook was originally published in 2001 it was specifically for GM Metricchassis (78 or newer Malibu, Monte Carlo, Regal and Cutlass cars) racing on asphalt. Antidive and antisquat are mechanical influences that can help our transitional phases of entry and exit. racing aspirations Moment Center for Circle Track That was it. I noticed the camaros can arch or de arch springs. Shocks affect the motion of the corners of the car and therefore the placement of loads during transitional periods. LOL. So, we either lower the rear RC or soften the springs, especially the right rear spring, or preferably do both. Built to the same high standards of safety, quality and craftsmanship that has made Port City Racecars an industry leader. Conclusion The Metric four-link rear suspension is here to stay for a while. The CCMS rules allow 3rd link and panhard bar. I never got to the experimenting stage on asphalt. Load the setup in the iRacing simulation under Garage - My Setups. Good luck and keep the rubber side down!!! I understand not wanting to share to much especially if your a racer, but who or where else can I gain info on this? PDF Metric 4 Link Setup For Dirt - Annualreport.psg.fr Fox80. Use the "new" 7 inch arm on the RH and the 8.5 on the LH. Competitions are held on oval tracks . I had a very experienced racer come out and help us one time and he said the problem he saw with the car is the rear end looked as if it was shifting to the left by a couple inches. The components that locate the rear end must be evaluated and set correctly. 1 being the most important. We can add the stiffer bushings to most of the points, but leave several, one at the top and one at the bottom, as a rubber bushing to absorb the torque created in roll. Here are some recommendations. Roughly 8-10 degrees of third link angle is sufficient to promote antisquat and not hurt your corner entry. We run on a semi flat 1/2 mile asphalt track. A spring split of 250-lb/in spring in the left rear and 200-lb/in spring in the right rear is common. Street Stocks Dur-A-Flex Racing. Trends are a part of this learning curve and greatly influence some, but not all racers. how to adjust iRacing Sprint Car cross weight, go here. So, we must make due and set up these cars the best we can. Your close on the springs if the car is 3200. When this book was originally published in 2001 it was specifically for GM Metric chassis (78 or newer Malibu, Monte Carlo, Regal and Cutlass cars) racing on asphalt. However, tie down shocks are becoming less and less desirable. I never felt good about cheating but when everyone does you need an even playing field. Posted August 22, 2005. Note the new cross weight and the ride heights. Quote. It locates the rearend fore and aft, it reduces rear steer when the chassis rolls, it prevents axle wrap-up when braking or accelerating, and it provides a relatively stable roll center location. That's one thing I've really never understood about some street stock classes that don't allow weight jacks. Street Stock. After you get the cross weight where you want it, adjust the ride heights. With several wins and a championship under our belt after the first year . Off-centered adjusters can be very inconsistent. Moderators:FeliciaMC88, UFo Race Championship. I guess the leaf cars could be allowed adjustable shackles in the rear to even that one out, sort-of. Since the braking forces are in the opposite direction, there is a serious resistant force created which helps prevent the front suspension from moving in compression too quickly while braking. We run on street tires and can not move suspension mounts (viasably ) I won the championship last year with a car . I used 13" springs with buckets welded in the frame on the rear.Car will be to high without buckets trying to use 13" springs.We used straight 6 valve shocks on the front and straight 5 valve shocks on the rear.Don't mess with split valve shocks if you are a beginner.this spring setup . Setup Tips for Metric on asphalt racecheep. The amount of resistance is directly related to the degree of side view angle we put in our control arms and the amount of brake force used. How about just adding a panhard bar to the stock four-link setup? "ULTIMATE" Racing Car Chassis Setup Guide and Tutorial. Free Download Chapter listings from Street Stock Setup Maual 2.1.pdf (PDF). Probably to the guys that are beating you! 2.Now set toe out. Victory Circle - West Coast asphalt and dirt chassis design and I would like know what the ic would be on a g body with a 9 inch in the rear with stock suspension. LIT-718 80291 1997 - 2004 Mustang Radiator. View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage 02-25-2021, 09:09 AM. The rear roll center is certainly part of the problem. The cross weight adjustments should work on all dirt cars except the Sprint Cars. We are at a crossroads at this point in time with setup technology in asphalt racing. Chassis Tuning 101 Murfdogg. Brake bias influence can be easily determined by entering the corner with medium to heavy braking first and then entering with light braking to see if there is a difference. Those cars are coming around becoming competitive. I think everyone agrees that the old leaf spring cars (Camaros and Novas) are becoming harder and harder to find. If the camaros are allowed adjustable rear shackles and are allowed to use different lowering blocks then they already have weight jacks and are allowed to adjusted rear roll center. The metric cars at THR may be as competitive as the camaros but at CC they were not even close untill we were allowed to change to 3 link and a panhard bar. Wheel Accessories. I want to try a reverse spring set up on a hobby stock car that am helping a friends with its a 3400 lbs metric car all stock. Metric Four-Link Suspension Design - Circle Track Magazine - MotorTrend
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